Curse

Loshi · Dec 07, 2006, 08:15 AM // 08:15

15 Strength
12 Marksmanship

Zealous Flatbow of Fortitude.
Need at least gladiator Chest/legs. 25 Energy is a must.

Distracting Shot
Keen Arrow
Hunter's Shot
Focused Shot (AWESOME)
Flourish (AWESOME)
Read The Wind
Flail
RezSig

Alright. The basis is this: Focused SHot disables all skills for 3 seconds. Flourish recharges all recharging skills and gives you energy.

So, hit RTW, fire off a Focused SHot, flourish, then pound off Keen and Hunter's.
Use Flail when you get a chance. RTW + Flail = idiotically fast arrows, makign your Distracting SHot DELICIOUSLY good.

When you get low on energy, or your skills are recharging, pound another Focused Shot and Flourish. Make sure you have 9 energy before doign the combo. Hit Focused (costs 5E), youll have 4E, arrow hits, gains +1E, hit Flourish and you'll get +7x4 Energy. So delightful.

The basic damage is great, too. I can actually outdamage sword and axe average attacks, and it's faster. However, spiking power is reduced.

I guess you could try a +5Energy bow, and change Hunter's for Dual Shot. Thats a good one. The first three skills are changeable. Focused and Flourish are the ehart of the build, while Flail and Read The Wind are just wickedawesome synergy.

So, tell me what you think!

Munanko Roha · Dec 07, 2006, 01:23 PM // 13:23

Looks good (really), but trying to compare it to a pure Ranger with 16 Marksmanship and 13 Expertise I think it gets outdamaged. Anyway the sinergy between Focused and Flourish is really awesome so it's entirely your choice, outdamage or survivability...

Dutch Masterr · Dec 07, 2006, 07:56 PM // 19:56

looks good. i would use a hornbow though to give it a constant 25% armor penetration.

Jetdoc · Dec 07, 2006, 11:22 PM // 23:22

Very, very interesting. Not only does this solve the energy concern of a bow-using warrior, but also has a great "disguise" element for areas like PvP.

*Darcy* · Dec 07, 2006, 11:37 PM // 23:37

Hornbows only give 10% armor penetration

guildwiki link http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Bow

Rera · Dec 08, 2006, 01:31 AM // 01:31

I think what Dutch meant was 15% AP from strength + 10% AP from hornbow = 25% AP total.

Unfortunately, it doesn't actually work like that. Strength and Hornbow AP are both considered base AP (kind of like penetrating shot and penetrating blow), so they don't statck. The hornbow will give you 10% AP on all non-skill attacks, and 15 strength will give you 15% AP on your attack skills. (EDIT: According to Savio this is wrong, Hornbow AP is +10%, not 10% base)

Furthermore, people have run the math and shown that, in terms of DPS, the AP bonus from the hornbow does *not* outweigh the DPS penalty from the significantly lower refire rate.

Another correction I'd like to make is that Flail does not increase the speed of your arrows. It does increase the attack speed of skills with set activation speeds.

It's an interesting build, but nowhere near standard DPS builds in terms of effectiveness.

Senator Tom · Dec 08, 2006, 01:37 AM // 01:37

I'm sure trub loves you, but zomg i hate bow warriors

Savio · Dec 08, 2006, 04:38 AM // 04:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rera

Strength and Hornbow AP are both considered base AP (kind of like penetrating shot and penetrating blow), so they don't statck.

Hornbows are actually bonus AP, so they stack with Strength.

Loshi · Dec 08, 2006, 05:06 AM // 05:06

Before this turns into a discussion about Armor Penetration (Like so many Warrior Threads), anyone have any other comments regarding the build?

I chose Flatbow for the accuracy, speed, and range. With RTW, it completely destroys the 'arc' issue, and Flail makes the fire speed similar to a Shortbow, yet it maintains the monstrous range.

And I made this build using Drago's Flatbow (Since it was my faovurite bow) but bought a Zealous Irongwing Flatbow for three reasons. A) Because I wanted to see if the build could be more energy-effective, and B) It doesn't look retarded like most bows, and C) Amulets are cheap as dirt nowadays.

I'm also working on a W/A Daggermastery build, will post when perfected.

If anyone has any better attack skills to recommend for slots 1-3, I'm all ears.

Rera · Dec 08, 2006, 05:24 AM // 05:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Savio

Hornbows are actually bonus AP, so they stack with Strength.

If this has been tested (link please, if possible), then I stand corrected.

To salvage the argument though, the point remains that hornbow AP does not make up for lower attack speed, so the original conclusion still stands.

@Loshi:
- Flatbows and Shortbows have the same refire rate. Flail is irrelevant, since you could use Flail with any bow.

SnipiousMax · Dec 08, 2006, 06:23 AM // 06:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rera

nor (IIRC) does it increase the attack speed of skills with set activation speeds

This isn't entirely true either. IAS stances effect skills like Focused Shot, barrage, quickshot, needling and a number of others. It's just too small a difference to tell with a 1/2 cast.

Rera · Dec 08, 2006, 07:07 AM // 07:07

Are you sure? I've been using Prot Strike under Frenzy for a long time, and I'm pretty certain there's no speed difference. The same with Skull Crack and Distracting Blow.

If Frenzy really did work, I think it'd be noticeable, since 33% IAS applied to a 0.5s attack results in 0.335s. I'm also not sure why you included Focused Shot or Barrage in there, since they do not have set draw times.

Anyway, I'll go try it right now.

EDIT: I honestly can't tell if there's a difference. I targetted myself so I could see the skill monitor ... hit Distracting Shot, then Frenzy and Savage Shot. Seemed to be the same speed to me.

LightningHell · Dec 08, 2006, 07:37 AM // 07:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dutch Masterr

looks good. i would use a hornbow though to give it a constant 25% armor penetration.

People never learn...STRENGTH ONLY GIVES PENETRATION ON ATTACK SKILLS.

So it's (with your hornbow):
Normal Attack: 10%
Attack Skill: 25%

Congratulations on the novelty build.

Loshi · Dec 08, 2006, 08:30 AM // 08:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rera

@Loshi:
- Flatbows and Shortbows have the same refire rate. Flail is irrelevant, since you could use Flail with any bow.

Really? Rad.

Guess I should care more about rangers.

Regardless, Flail isn't irrelevant, because it increases my attack speed by 33%, therefore I gain wickedfast energy gain due to Zealous action.

It increases my refire rate, not necessarily the arrow speed. I'm aware of that. Thats what RTW! is for.

Btw, I wasn't trying to make this build incredibly effective. I'm aware 16axe/10Str Evisc/Exe has high DPS, as well as HammerChains.

I was just trying to make a W/R Marksmanship build that A) Works, and B) is somewhat effective.

When you play a char for 18 months, it's easy to get bored, lol.

Btw, I'm pretty sure with skills with listed activation times, Frenzy/Flail won't affect them, but with skills without listed activation times, they will be affected. Thats my two bits on your guys' discussion, at least.

Oh, and thank you all for the feedback.

SnipiousMax · Dec 08, 2006, 02:58 PM // 14:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rera

I'm also not sure why you included Focused Shot or Barrage in there, since they do not have set draw times.

Yea, mental slip on my part. It was once believed (myself included) that because the recharge of barrage was less than a typical bow shot, that an IAS wouldn't affect it (when it does). But that doesn't really have anything to do with the point you were making.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rera

EDIT: I honestly can't tell if there's a difference. I targetted myself so I could see the skill monitor ... hit Distracting Shot, then Frenzy and Savage Shot. Seemed to be the same speed to me.

You're not going to be able to see it with interrupts, because they all have a set timed delay after the interrupt is fired. And nothing changes the cast times... it's the time inbetween shots that is affected. That's why you'd have to use something like Quickshot or needling shot. The difference is notable when you compare number of times activated per minute. Even if something has a set activation time, you'll be ready to fire your next shot (attack) sooner under an IAS.

But your point still stands about a Hornbow AP not making up for its Refire rate. I checked the numbers and it came out to like 2 DPS in favor of the short/flatbow while under an IAS.

jesh · Dec 08, 2006, 09:42 PM // 21:42

Very cool, I'll have to try this when I'm bored.

Rera · Dec 09, 2006, 12:15 AM // 00:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by SnipiousMax

You're not going to be able to see it with interrupts, because they all have a set timed delay after the interrupt is fired. And nothing changes the cast times... it's the time inbetween shots that is affected. That's why you'd have to use something like Quickshot or needling shot. The difference is notable when you compare number of times activated per minute. Even if something has a set activation time, you'll be ready to fire your next shot (attack) sooner under an IAS.

Well, it turns out we're both wrong. I went in-game and tested with Quickshot - which, incidentally, I would have done if I wasn't being ****ing retarded yesterday - and there's definitely an increase in draw speed, not just refire rate.

This means that interrupting under IAS *is* faster than interrupting without IAS. Woo.

Ulivious The Reaper · Dec 09, 2006, 12:41 AM // 00:41

and this only proves my theory that warriors can play and secondary very well XD

Loshi · Dec 09, 2006, 04:52 AM // 04:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ulivious The Reaper

and this only proves my theory that warriors can play and secondary very well XD

Thats my opinion too. I feel that the warrior has a veru strong base (The high armor, and the versatile strength skills), making them ideal for any secondary. While energy issues always arise, if you make a Gladiator Suit (1+1+1+3+2 = 8) with 4 attunements (+10), and a perfect staff (10+5head+5^50) you cna ahve 58 energy. The only issue then is not just the base enegry, but you actually regaining energy, which can be attained with things like Flourish, Warrior's Endurnace (need a melee weap, which can still be +5E), I feel that makes warrior on of the best classes to truly multiclass into any secondary.

Maybe thats just me. And Warriors FTW.

Loshi · Dec 09, 2006, 05:32 AM // 05:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rera

Well, it turns out we're both wrong. I went in-game and tested with Quickshot - which, incidentally, I would have done if I wasn't being ****ing retarded yesterday - and there's definitely an increase in draw speed, not just refire rate.

This means that interrupting under IAS *is* faster than interrupting without IAS. Woo.

You could ahve just done Flurry and Disrupting Chop. I can hit Reversal of Fortune with that.